We love to help. We especially appreciate positive feedback.
Moving to this new website , we are the same people that have been providing the same solutions, we’ve been separated from our old reviews and blog posts. So when Gary O from Texas wrote in with praise and a picture of a target, I asked if we could post it here (he said yes).
Hi Tom, Just wanted to let you know how happy I am with your closed breech Kit for my Remington 700ML. Sent you the bolt and got it back and it works great. Sending pictures of 3 rounds fired after sighting in the rifle. No blow back. I am sure that a better trigger will tighten up the groups even more. Next trip out I will shoot at 100 and 200 yards. Thanks for a great product.
We’ve been selling and installing our great 209 conversions for years now. And I’ve noticed my questions and sales following trends influenced by the various hunting seasons and their associated rules. This time of year many folks are getting ready for Colorado’s muzzle loader season, typically focusing on harvesting an elk. So annually, I edit and re-post this entry. The commentary here was also added the to the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions).
Close up of Remington 700 MLS feeding 209 primer into sealed breech
FAQ Entry:
Q: I hunt in Colorado, sabots are not allowed for hunting during muzzle loader season. I want to use your awesome 209 conversion, but you say you recommend sabots with jacketed handgun bullets. What are my options?
Animated Gif Loading primer in Remington 700 209 sealed breech
A: Short answer is our kit will work great with any projectile. The issue is not all powders work with all projectiles. I’ve found Pyrodex, Triple Se7en, and black powder work best with non sabot projectiles. So I suggest that you use our kit and any muzzle loader safe powder (besides BlackHorn209) for your Colorado hunts with Colorado legal projectiles.
UPDATE TO ADD: Some folks are reporting good results with the new Hornady Bore-Driver bullets. They have a substantial plastic base on them that seems to seal well and function with BlackHorn209. You may want to try it out yourself.
Long answer:
I realize not all 50 state have the same rules. And some state’s rules are just plain silly. I wrote a blog post about that.
The main thing to remember here: the powder you chose must be compatible with the projectiles you use.
Our kit will seal the breech, which keeps the crud out of the bolt and action no matter what muzzle loader safe propellant you chose. Our kit is compatible with all muzzle loader safe propellants: pellets, loose powder, etc. Also using 209’s will give you more ignition heat and thus more reliable ignition over caps. And seeing our system keeps the crud sealed into the breech plug, the 209 is ignited reliably too. But the powder and projectile choice is up to the shooter. Read the manuals/instructions and follow them when developing loads. Blackhorn209 powder is different from Pyrodex & Triple7even: To be reliable BlackHorn209 needs to be fully sealed; i.e. sealed at the breech (which our kit does), and sealed at the projectile. Minnie balls, minet, power belts, B.O.R. Lock MZ and other easy loading projectiles that are legal for Colorado muzzle loading, don’t usually seal until the powder combusts and forces them into the grooves. This deformation sealing the bore after combustion is called obturation. The problem is BlackHorn209 doesn’t burn well until it’s sealed and can build pressure. So it’s likely to have bloopers, miss fires, and hang fires with obturating projectiles. Sabots seal well to start, thus if you are using BlackHorn209, it’s recommended to use sabots.
Though the new Hornady Bore Driver bullets are reported to seal well and work with BlackHorn209, I haven’t tried them myself.
Never use smokeless powder in your Remington/Ruger! It says it right on the barrel!
Because Colorado doesn’t allow sabots during the muzzle loader seasons I would stay away from Blackhorn209. (or with a lot of trial, I may try the Hornady Bore Drivers).
Otherwise, If I was hunting in Colorado, I’d use our kit, choose a heavy projectile (250gr or more) that seals on ignition: Hornady BoreDriver, Thor, minie ball, lead conical, etc. But without a lot of testing, I wouldn’t use BlackHorn209; I’d try Triple7even, or Pyrodex. Although they are not as easy to clean, and will foul the barrel, they are very easy to ignite even when not sealed, and will obturate the projectile and push it down the barrel forcefully.
Black powder will work just fine with these sorts of projectiles too. I do have a few clients that report success with Blackhorn209 and magnum primers (CCI 209M or Federal 209A) using Hornady FPB’s or its aforementioned replacement: Bore Driver… and also with Thor bullets. I also had one that said the Thors worked well at the range, but didn’t fire when he had a nice bull in his sights. He said it was extremely chilly that morning, his rifle was cold soaked, and the Blackhorn209 wouldn’t go bang. He was very frustrated.
I suspect it was because the projectile shrunk with the cold, and the copper jacket wasn’t quite as malleable. Also cold powder is just a bit harder to get burning, and thus that setup was unable to obturate the looser projectile and keep the BlackHorn209 burning. Thus without a lot of testing (like putting a loaded rifle in a freezer, pulling it out and shooting the combo… repeatedly). I would stick with Pyrodex or TripleSeven for Colorado muzzle loader hunting: they will go bang with an obturating bore riding projectile when you need it, even when it is very cold.
Outside Colorado, Idaho, and Oregon, I recommend sabots because they have been accurate, easy to load, and jacketed hand gun bullets have always been very effective for me. Whatever powder you chose, the velocities your muzzle loader will produce are essentially the same that good jacketed handgun bullets are designed for. They tend to kill quickly and bring home game. Sabots are allowed in most states, so that’s what I usually recommend.
Long-term: If I voted in Colorado, I’d pressure my legislature to change the muzzleloader rules. Removing the most effective projectiles (jacketed handgun bullets are great in muzzle loaders), and the most modern muzzleloading propellant (Black Horn 209) from use is bad for the game receiving the projectile. I believe the no sabots rule promotes wounded/lost animals.
For this installment of the Badger’s Den, I’d like to discuss WD-40.
But first, let me assure you: We are the same people delivering the same simple effective solutions as always. So if a web search brought you here looking for solutions for your muzzle loader, gun cabinet/safe storage & organizers, tool organization, etc. You are in the right place, and probably just a click or two away from finding it (try one of the links in the prior sentence), or try the menu in the side bar (if you are on a desktop computer… or scroll down if you are on your phone). Or just click here to go to Our Products.
But I hope you stick around and read my thoughts on WD-40.
What is WD-40? Now-a-days, that’s a tricky question. For many years, WD-40 was just the light oily stuff in a blue and yellow can that seemed to be on the shelf in every store. It got used on everything. And it got a bad reputation for drying out and leaving a cruddy crust that seemed to jam stuff up more than fix or lube it.
But now-a-days, WD-40 is still that same oily stuff in a can, and it’s a company, with an entire “WD-40 Specialist” product line. To keep it simple for this post, I’m going to address “Traditional WD-40” as just “WD-40.” The “WD-40 company” will be called “WD-40 company”. All the other “specialist” products the WD-40 Company sells, will be addressed by what I commonly call them: “WD-40 Dry lube” “WD-40 Corrosion Inhibitor” etc.
We don’t sell any WD-40 company products. But I use four of them, and you might too. Seeing they are available just about everywhere, effective when understood, and typically reasonably priced, it’s understandable that you’d have some on the shelf and use it. But the question is, are you using it correctly?
WD-40 actually does stack up ‘OK’ against many other products commonly used in automechanics: grime removal, rust penetrant, etc. It’s rarely the best, but it’s typically OK.
When it comes to guns, if you listen you will find lots of different opinions on WD-40’s usefulness. Many will have horror stories, and tend to be negative. You probably heard stuff like: “Absolutely never use WD-40 on a gun.” If you did a little research you’d find statements claiming WD-40 products are in use in most gunsmithing schools. Can both be true? Is there more to this?
I get to talk to a lot of folks on the phone as part of our business. Some folks hate all things WD-40. They usually have a story that goes along with it. I sometimes ask them what they mean when they say “WD-40” there’s so many cans with that logo on it now, that it can be confusing. I usually keep it simple with them and tell them I used WD-40 all the time, but:
Traditional WD-40 is never the only thing, nor last thing I use on any firearm component!
WD-40 products I use regularly
Let’s start our discussion with the Traditional WD-40. My understanding is that:
WD-40 was formulated as a “Water Displacement” product while trying multiple formulations, and as it was the 40th formulation that was tried, it was named WD-40.
The US Air Force was the largest of WD-40’s first purchasers. The USAF prescribed it as a metal treatment for it’s Titan Missiles. It was rubbed on the outer bare stainless steel skin to protect it from corrosion. On things like missiles, paint has weight and weight adds up. The missile can fly farther with a heavier payload the lighter it is, so they omitted paint and had the missileers rub them with WD-40.
The Air Force guys got used to using WD-40 elsewhere and also seemed to be in the habit of bringing it home and using it on more stuff there. They wanted to buy it commercially, so it hit the shelves. It got used on all sorts of mechanisms, and became the ubiquitous can of lube on most folks shelves. WD-40 became so universal, that the company that made and sold WD-40 changed it’s name to “WD-40.”
Please note: Traditional WD-40 wasn’t specifically designed as a lubricant, nor a penetrant. However it does seem to work pretty well in those regards… at least until the carrier evaporates and leaves a crusty crud that can jam up mechanisms.
So what does this mean for us gun owners? To me its pretty simple: I use WD-40 to clean crud off guns all the time. I find it especially useful in neglected black powder rifle bolts (something I work on regularly). If one of my guns takes a dip in the water, or hunts in the rain, I’ll hit it heavy with WD-40 too. But WD-40 is never the only thing, nor the last thing to touch one of my guns.
And again, I’m talking traditional WD-40 here. I see it as an effective, inexpensive way to remove moisture and heavy grime. Once that is gone, I remove the WD-40 with something else, and then lube and protect with a final more expensive product designed for the job: like gun oil (Rem-Oil, CLP, etc).
Three useful WD-40 specialist products
Don’t confuse WD-40 (traditional) with the Specialists. The “Specialists” are entirely different animals. Like WD-40 the “specialists” are reasonably priced, and readily available. They have specialized focuses. I use two of them daily, and pretty sure I have a third & fourth on the shelf too.
Mostly I use WD-40 Specialist Dry Lube. I use it often to remove the Traditional WD-40 I just doused something down with. The evaporative carrier in Dry Lube does a great job of carrying everything left behind away, and leaving it dry but lightly lubed with small PTFE balls. This dry lube feels slick, and leaves a surface that won’t attract dust, hold grime, and most of all doesn’t gel in the cold. I love to clean out shotgun magazine tubes with WD-40 Dry Lube and let it stay slick for feeding shells. Gun actions, trigger packs, and the interior of bolts get heavy doses of Dry Lube. The grime is allowed to float away. Then these mechanisms get drops of gun oil (Rem-oil/CLP) or small dabs of grease where needed.
Like it says on the Dry Lube can: this stuff works great on things like table saw blades, miter saw blades, and other stuff you want to keep dust free. I’ve seen a noticeable difference in how my saws cut after applying a little bit of it.
When I get metal that’s exposed or I need to store something and not worry about corrosion, I’ll hit it with WD-40 Specialist Corrosion Inhibitor. Frequently old antique guns that get stored more than shot, get cleaned, get whipped down with the WD-40 Specialist Corrosion Inhibitor, and then put away. The stuff is pretty greasy. So If I’m going to shoot a gun I coated with Specialist Corrosion Inhibitor, I remove it and lube it properly with standard gun products. But that gun stays lightly coated with the Corrosion Inhibitor most of the time its in storage.
Small metal parts that I stock and sell get hit with Corrosion Inhibitor too. If you buy something from us, like Small Ruger Screws, they will arrive with a light coating of this stuff. I don’t use the corrosion inhibitor everyday, and maybe there is something better out there, but I’m still working through my first can of the stuff I bought a while back.
The third type I have sitting around is Specialist Electric Contact cleaner. I’ve used it to blast gunk out of automotive electrical connectors & parts.
The fourth is the white lithium grease. It doesn’t seem special compared to any other white lithium grease I’ve used. While I have a bunch of dry lube cans, I only have one of the inhibitor, the contact cleaner, and one of the white grease.
So is WD-40 good or bad? Well what WD-40 are you talking about? What is the application? I’d say WD-40 company products, are pretty good values, when you understand them and use them correctly. Like anything: if you want success, you need to be smarter than what you are operating. Start by reading the instructions!
The gallon can I refill my “trigger pro” from
Are the Specialists the best at what they do? Maybe? The real question to ask is, “Are they effective enough and can you get your hands on them?” To me those are both “YES” answers, so I use them.
As a farewell, I’d like to point out that I rarely buy and use the aerosol version of Traditional WD-40. I get the “trigger pro” and refill it from gallon jugs. The trigger pro can seems designed to prevent refills, so it does take some creative use of pliers, exacto knives, and funnels. I cannot find a more simple effective affordable manner to clean all the grimy Remington 700 ML/MLS bolts sent to me. But those same bolts never leave with just Traditional WD-40 on them: its all Dry Lube, a drop of oil, and 3M molybdenum disulfide grease when they go.
Traditional WD-40 is never the only thing, nor last thing I use on any firearm component!
